Awakening Healing With Dr. Don St. John Blossom Your Awesome Podcast

Awakening Healing With Dr. Don St. John Blossom Your Awesome Podcast

Dr. Don St. John is back on the show with more incredible wisdom and insights.

Dr. Don St John, Ph.D., is a somatic-relational psychotherapist, workshop leader and author of the award winning book, 'Healing the Wounds of Childhood' and his latest book, 'Healing the Wounds of Childhood and Culture, An Adventure of a Lifetime.'

He is an authorized Continuum Teacher and Hellerwork Structural Integration practitioner and trainer. He has taught and given presentations in the US, Canada, New Zealand, and Brazil.

He is also a teacher at a Christian Ayahuasca Church where he helps facilitate healing and spiritual awakening.

To follow me, get bonus content from the show, my own takeaways and favorite quotes, along with access to my Check me out here at my Substack.

This is the best place to support my work.

Or sign up for my Weekly Newsletter here.

To see more of my work check me out at my website where I write and cover mindfulness and other things to help you Blossom Your Awesome.

Or checkout my other site where I right about arts and culture, wellness, essays and op-eds.

Or follow me on instagram where I post fairly regularly and ask an inquisitive question or two weekly in hopes of getting you thinking about your life and going deeper with it.

My Instagram - i_go_by_skd

To see more of who I'm talking to on the Podcast, to advertise your brand on the Blossom Your Awesome Podcast or just get in touch click here.  

Transcript

Sue (00:04.61)
Hi there. Today on the show, we have got Dawn St. John back here with us. I am so honored and delighted to have you back again. Thank you so much. Welcome to the show.

Don St John (00:16.641)
Oh, it's my pleasure, Sue. I've been looking forward to our second conversation with you.

Sue (00:22.866)
Oh, it was such an amazing first conversation. I got so much wonderful feedback. You had so many powerful insights. So want to kind of just touch on your background. You are a psychotherapist. You're a teacher. You're an author. Your book is Healing the Wounds of Childhood and Culture, an Adventure of a Lifetime. You are also a teacher in a Christian ayahuasca church. This is one of the things I'm so excited to get into.

with you today about, and also you've been immersed in all sorts of modalities, psychological, somatic, relational, and other stuff for decades. So you want to just, you told us last time, but give us a little bit of the backstory, how and why you got into this line of work.

Don St John (01:15.629)
Well, yeah, it's... There was no way to predict that I was going to end up where I've ended up looking at my childhood and adolescence. My first dream was to be a professional baseball player, but by the time I was 10 years old, I realized that was completely unrealistic. I just...

simply did not have the skills, the coordination, the balance, the speed to be a baseball player. So my next dream was to become a professional prize fighter. Now that became my sport throughout my pre-adolescence and early adolescence. I.

knock on my friend's door with two pair of boxing gloves, invite them to come out and fight. And when I went into the Air Force, two days after high school, I had no idea what I was gonna do with the rest of my life. And soon realized I needed help. I was drinking a lot in the Air Force, ended a relationship.

It was a very, very painful ending when I was 20 years old and really took to the bottle hard. I found a psychiatrist who worked on Saturdays and that was the first step in a journey that continues to this day.

Don St John (03:04.789)
went from the Air Force to undergraduate school, majored in psychology, went to graduate school, and just continued studying. And I had a pretty traumatic, very traumatic childhood. So I went in search of healing. And here I am talking to you today.

I was somewhat of an expert about it, mostly out of my own experience, but also professionally.

Sue (03:38.958)
Wow, I love that. And you know, another thing I just love, Dawn, about the work you do is this idea, because so often, you know, you've got one method, one methodology, but you are tapping into so many different things, the somatics, the psycho-emotional, relational. Give us, I mean, was this part of your own journey too with working with...

these different modalities for your own healing? Is that why you kind of lean on all of these different things?

Don St John (04:15.625)
Yeah, absolutely. I realized pretty early on that talk therapy, as much value as I was receiving from being a patient in psychotherapy, it became clear, obvious to me, Sue, that it wasn't going to be enough. When a person is...

impacted by trauma and especially intense trauma but all kinds of wounding. The body is affected, clearly affected. So I went in search of somatic modalities, you know, as I came to understand through, you know, reading different authors, studying different disciplines,

important it was to restore the body's connection to one's spirit, to one's consciousness. And it became a major pursuit. I also realized that I was, I'd say, relationally on the retarded side. I mean, I was not, I had no idea, none really, about what it meant to be.

in a committed, intimate relationship. My parents, when they spoke to each other, they were fighting. I almost never even saw them hold hands, much less express any affection. That was my model. And again, I had so much to learn. So that became another area of commitment, of study, of...

uh, learning of healing. And then the spiritual, you know, I grew up Catholic. Uh, by the time I was 21, I was agnostic. By the time I was 24, I was an atheist. And then my second year of graduate school, I ingested a psychedelic with some friends, I believe LSD.

Don St John (06:43.229)
at the time. And it just, you know, to say it blew my mind is an understatement. It was a very positive experience. And it made me realize, Sue, that there was more than what we can perceive through our senses. That the reality we walk and navigate

every day is partial that there's so much more and you know that opened me up to the possibility of spirituality in a way that listening to sermons or trying to believe some doctrine never did.

and I went in pursuit of spirituality over many years.

And the last, let me say, the last 29 years, almost 30 years, I've been a member of a Christian ayahuasca church that began in Brazil and is gradually circulating around the world. And it's been a very rich experience for my wife and myself. I've been with the same.

woman now for 38 years and we're both 80 years old and it's you know it's still a vibrant emotionally sexually intimate relationship you know we haven't we haven't we haven't stopped learning growing connecting so

Sue (08:38.31)
Wow. I love that. That is all so powerful and I have so many questions for you. So before we get into this ayahuasca thing and using that spiritually and to elevate our consciousness and all of that, which I just, I cannot wait to get your insights on this, I want to ask you something. So you know the relational component. I'm reading something here. There's the

Don St John (08:38.607)
Here I am.

Sue (09:04.59)
on your website, you have something where you talk about the relational and it's this, you know, you say that where human beings are fundamentally social and forming close bonds is not just important, it's essential. So, and then, you know, this idea of relational starvation, I find that so many people, so many of us, never

really learn. Like you say, there's so much more, but we're just not really getting there. We're not able to connect in this deep way with other people for our highest good.

Don St John (09:52.665)
Yes, I agree. Is there a question there Sue? I'm not sure.

Sue (09:58.45)
Yeah, I mean, it talked to us. I know it was a statement, but talk to us about that. What is it just, because we're made to connect in this way, but why aren't we connecting in this way?

Don St John (10:13.825)
Well, it's a very complex answer because there are a number of factors that are at play here. One is as a culture, we're kind of stuck at a level of developing our individuality. See, we believe it's about me and mine and us.

and it's a level of development for sure, but we haven't yet reached, and I talk about it in terms of reaching the heart. We have to awaken the heart, which is about relationship. The heart is about love. It's about wisdom. And...

You know, we haven't gotten there yet. And we have to, to handle, to deal with the issues that we're facing across the world. You see, as long as we believe it's about accumulation, about gross national product, about how much wealth we can accumulate.

how much territory we can conquer. As long as we're stuck at that level of mentality, we'll continue with these conflicts because we believe somehow we're separate from one another. Somehow we're individual entities, okay? Whose sole function is to survive.

and accumulate, you know, my family, my space. It's like ego. When we begin to awaken the heart, when we begin to like clear it of all the junk that has accumulated, like resentments and prejudice and false.

Don St John (12:40.449)
beliefs and all the things that get in the way of the heart taking its place in our development and its place is the center its place is the doorway to true spirituality you can you can go to church you can carry a

good book, you know, but if you don't awaken the heart, you're going through emotions and you tend, you tend to believe that your book is the book and the other book is wrong, you know? And so then it's easy to act against those whom we believe are wrong.

The heart doesn't see it that way. When the heart has been, you know, cleaned, opened, ignited, awakened, then, you know, a whole other dimension of life is awakened. Mine occurred a long time ago when I was at a workshop whose intent was awaken the heart.

And on the second day of the workshop, my wife at the time called me to let me know that she wanted to have an open relationship and that she'd begun, by the way. Did that come across?

Sue (14:26.399)
Mm-hmm.

Don St John (14:27.789)
and the pain that I went through.

for about a day and a half. And in that context that I was in, it was miraculous that I was there. In that context, my heart broke open and I experienced love in a way that I had never experienced before. In the midst of this rage, in the midst of this pain, love was coming through.

Before that, I was a complete victim of that rage and pain. But when that moment occurred, the rage and pain continued for several more days, but it was just rage and pain. I wasn't the victim of it. It was simply what was happening in a context of an awakening.

and I was in my 30s and for the first time in my life, I knew that my life was going to go well. And that's, you know, I mean, the rest of year, for years after, it's been about grounding that, finding ways to keep that open, loving, not being afraid of love. A lot of work.

But that moment was a moment of awakening that I can never forget. And you know, this is, go ahead. You look like.

Sue (16:14.535)
No, no, please continue. I'm just I'm so moved, please

Don St John (16:21.785)
Well, where that's led to many years later is bumping in to this church. I was living in Seattle. My wife and I were taking a course and we heard about it, that there were these Brazilians coming to Seattle about once a month and distributing this mysterious tea.

that in that church is called Owaska, generically known as Ayahuasca. And, you know, I was interested. It piqued my curiosity and I got myself on the list. And about two and a half weeks, three weeks after my mother died, I got an invitation to come drink this tea.

I didn't know it was a church. I didn't know it was a Christian church. And so I went and I had the most amazing experience. My mother who had just died appeared. She was there, sitting next to me, looking young, looking beautiful. We had a very, very.

challenging relationship and none of the complexity, let's say, was there. It was just, it was like this beautiful young woman sitting with me. And we just hung out with each other for all of probably a minute and a half. But what was especially fascinating, Sue, was that later on that evening...

after the session, as we call it, was over, a friend of mine who was sitting on the other side of the room came over and said, Dawn, did you know your mother was here tonight? And I was stunned. I thought that was a projection of my imagination. He said, I said, how did you know? He said, oh, I saw her.

Don St John (18:47.637)
I was hooked. I didn't know it was a church, but I said, this is my church. What more could I say? And, you know.

Don St John (19:04.585)
It's a context that helps us elevate our consciousness, clarify what gets in the way of feeling good, feeling in peace and harmony with those around us. I've been doing it for 28 years, became a teacher in the organization.

Sue (19:35.214)
Wow. Now, this has to be a huge part of the awakening of the heart. Like so much of it has got to have happened through the church and through the sessions, right? Can you talk to us about that?

Don St John (19:56.221)
Yeah, you know, I have witnessed so many, and you could call them miracles. I'll give you an example. One person that I'm very, very close to had a fraught relationship with her mother almost from infancy. And...

You know, obviously in that kind of situation, one blames the mother and holds on to that blame for life. And it filters one's perception, one's actions, one's words in relationship to that person, in this case, her mother. And in one session,

drinking the tea, we call it vegetal. In one session she saw, just like that, her own participation in how that relationship evolved over years. And that was it. That changed her interaction with her mother from that moment forward. I'll give you another example, a woman.

who came in depressed, chronically, chronically depressed, feeling worthless, an aura of unhappiness that was present for years. And in a matter of three or four months, began to feel a happiness that she'd never known.

Don St John (21:51.301)
The power, the power of that substance, that natural spiritual medicine, if you will, to reach deep into our soul, into our psyche, and clarify what was previously muddled.

and constricting and heavy in a matter of very little time.

Don St John (22:31.245)
powerful. And you know, in my case, by the time I started, I was 52 years old when I 51 when I first began, and I'd done I've been working on myself for 30 years. So the need in my case was a little bit more subtle.

My wife and I had been together 10 years. We were doing well. We were committed You know a number of things needed tweaking and developing and of course to this day still do but We weren't We weren't lost as so many people come into this church

They're lost. They may be in their 20s or 30s and they haven't found themselves, haven't found their way. You know, I have a couple friends in mind who are in their late 20s and came in early and they were party guys. You know, they drank, they smoked, they had a different woman every month and they're dev...

developing into, you know, these centered and strong and lovable young men. You know? So, yeah, it's a very wholesome, healthy path in which people get to have this experience two or three times every month.

in cities where we have distributions. Unfortunately, we have a long way to go. We're probably in about nine or 10 places in the States, a couple up in Canada, some in Europe, all over Brazil. If you live in Brazil, there's no difficulty in finding a group

Don St John (24:52.957)
major and moderate sized city in Brazil is within an easy driving distance, but in the states it's harder yet at this point still.

Sue (25:07.391)
Now, Don, let me ask you, so my takeaway here based on what you've described, and it sounds, it just sounds so out of this world, but it's almost like people very much are going in search of something, right? You're wanting to clear something, you're wanting some kind of experience, you're wanting to get in touch with God or whatever it is.

And essentially we arrive and everything's kind of all muddled. And then you take the substance and it's almost like it, it peels back, it separates, it pulls the egos over here. Now you can be a bystander over here and be looking, watching this experience and your emotions are over here. It sounds like that's what you're describing.

So you're able to look at it objectively in a way that you were never able to see it before.

Don St John (26:09.653)
That's, yeah, very well said, Sue. It takes off the blinders, it peels back the layers. It brings clarity, you know? And it brings peace and it brings love. We have a community, and this is true, I believe wherever we have a distribution.

of this tea, a community develops of people who really care for each other. I've said it in session once, you know, regardless of my state of mind, when I walk in the door on a Saturday night and I see all these faces, most of them are 20 to 40 years younger than me, because again, I'm 80. But when I see those faces, I just feel good.

You know, it's pretty special to walk in and see 25, 30, some groups in Brazil, be over 100, you know, people and feel good when you see them because you're sharing this commitment, you're sharing this experience. And by the end of the session, you're open and elevated.

You may go through some challenging moments before you get to that open and elevated place, but most people get there. By the end of the session, they're feeling warm, they're feeling good, and when you connect with another person from that open space, see, this is what we crave. We started by talking about that relationship starvation.

This is what we crave, deep connection, because it's the truth. We are deeply connected. No, every spiritual teacher will tell you we have to awaken to the truth of what already is. We are connected. There's so many emotional, somatic, psychological habits, tendencies, patterns.

Don St John (28:32.065)
that get in the way of our experiencing that.

Sue (28:39.762)
And now Don, tell us how long does a session last? And I'm assuming, I don't know, but generally it sounds like it's so powerful that people come back, they return for more.

Don St John (28:56.277)
Well, people, we allow people to try it in a session that's especially designed for new people who haven't drunk the tea before. Once they drink it that first time, we let them come back for a while. And again, we have sessions twice a month at a minimum.

Some months we have three, some months four, but at a minimum we have two sessions a month and those people who have gone to the first one can come back and try it until they reach a point to make a decision as to whether they want to become members or not. If they become a member, then the duty is to attend that first and third Saturday of every month.

We start at eight o'clock, we finish around midnight, and then we hang out for an hour, two hours, sometimes three hours, socializing, enjoying food. And that's one of my favorite times, is that after the session, socializing, being with people, getting to know people better.

Yeah, and again, my wife and I have been doing it for 29 years now. And we've gone to a lot of sessions, for sure.

Sue (30:38.771)
Wow. And it's so it's that 8am or 8pm. Okay, got it.

Don St John (30:41.857)
PM, sorry, 8 PM til midnight. Four hours, four, a little over four, yeah.

Sue (30:50.43)
Okay. And now let me ask you, so you know, you're this idea of spirituality and using the Ayahuasca to tap in, in a deeper way. Can you speak to us like, what are you tapping into here? Like how profound, how much more intense is it?

Talk to us about your spiritual kind of revelations and things that have happened for you and the understanding that you've gained out of this.

Don St John (31:29.413)
That's a very huge question. Let me take a moment. I think, you know, the first thing, Sue, that comes to mind is how easy it's become to just feel love sitting with a human being, like sitting here with you. My heart is warm. I'd love to do this in person.

person, you know, there's and I was I was a punk kid from New York with Sitting it on a mailbox and a white t-shirt with a cigarette pack up and rolled up in my sleeve And you know, oh punk Want you to imagine that image to now And I think that opening that opening that

love is abundant, that it's where we come from. You know, people think they have to go find love, but it's there, it's in the heart. If you can get, you know, those layers that we talked about, if we could peel those layers back.

If we could peel that persona, that face we like to present to the world, that act that we bring forward in most of our social interactions, you know, whether it's the cool act or the rational, intellectual act or the nice girl or boy act or the tough guy, whatever that is.

If we can peel it away, if we can peel it back, what we find is love.

Don St John (33:34.825)
Now I know there's a whole lot more spiritual awakening that I may or may not be able to reach in this lifetime, but that is pretty profound. And it's coming to me in answer to your question. I didn't prepare this, I couldn't have prepared this.

But that's what it is. That's the biggest thing. I can sit opposite a client and actually feel this love in my heart.

Don St John (34:17.365)
That I think is the main one.

Don St John (34:23.575)
I can look at a person and see their beauty, see their sweetness, see their death.

It's so easy. And I'm so not intimidated by someone looking at me, looking into my eyes, being close. I was terrified, not scared, not scared, terrified of that kind of close experience 50 years ago. As a very young man.

30.

Now it's nourishment, you know? I don't know if that answered your question, but that's what came to me.

Sue (35:17.078)
That was so beautiful and so powerful and that more than answered my question, Dawn. And I think, you know, you know, because you live it, you embody it, you experience it. I think so many people don't even know what they're looking for. They don't even know this is something they can access. They don't know how to heal and open their hearts up in that way.

Don St John (35:46.625)
Sue, I didn't either. I didn't know any of it. You know, I put one foot in front of the other and I took a chance, you know? I heard about this church, for example, and where so many people would think, oh drugs, I'm out of here. No, not for me. Or, oh, church, oh, God forbid, church.

been there, done that. But you know, I said, I'll give it a try. I'll try it. So many other things. And they're all in my book, healing the wounds of childhood and culture. The things that I've done, the things that I still do, continuum, for example, fluid movement and meditation is a big part of my practice. And...

It makes a huge contribution to what I'm talking about.

Don St John (36:54.601)
So, yeah, good talking to you. You have more questions. I know you said 30, 35 minutes and we're at about 42.

Sue (37:08.126)
Yes, no, I do have more questions, Don. Can you talk to us about, you know, can you touch more on this opening of the heart? Because I think you just have a deeper insight here. Can you just expand on that for a moment for people who are fearful?

Don St John (37:34.077)
Yeah, you know, people are fearful because they've experienced so much pain in the heart. The pain of rejection, the pain of not being seen, you know, people from infancy on.

need to be seen, recognized for who they are, their individuality acknowledged, you know? And if it's not, that pain is, it's so hard to bear that we construct these edifices to protect ourselves. We all do.

each and every one of us to some degree or other might be just a little bit, you know, and those folks are fortunate, but for most people it's quite a bit, quite a bit. And so, you know, we, and it's, it's cultural, it's collective, it's not just, you know, you, you're not the only one.

It's normal in that sense that we're all blocking to one degree or other so that it's hard to love. Whereas once that really opens up, man, I don't mean to embarrass you here, but let me say, I look at you.

And I see someone who's so easy to love.

Don St John (39:35.885)
You know, I can see it. My heart is drawn to your depth, to your sweetness, to your richness, to your interest. I mean, it's all there. And it's just easy to love.

Don St John (39:59.853)
And it takes a whole lot of work, a whole lot of dedication, a whole lot of commitment to get to that place. And sometimes it takes heartbreak.

Sue (40:22.786)
Wow, Don, you are just...

Sue (40:29.23)
So incredible, so insightful. There's so much depth and wisdom in your words. And I think I'm just so moved and touched again to have all of your insights in this time with you because I think you're a sage and this is what we need. Like we need more people like you.

Again, like I say, people are out there lost, they're looking for something, but they don't even know what it is that they're looking for or how to find it, how to get there. But it's this, it's what you're describing. That's what everyone needs is that opening and awakening of the heart.

Don St John (41:16.405)
Yes, they're looking for love. It's where they come from. They're also looking for meaning. What am I doing here in the world?

Don St John (41:31.405)
And that's a whole other topic, but for now, let's say, we're all looking for love. But again, it's there already. We have to uncover, discover, and peel back what blocks its feeling and expression.

Sue (42:01.506)
Wow, amazing, Dawn. So a couple of things, first and foremost, I kind of just said it, but I'm gonna say it again. You're so amazing. I've loved this conversation, maybe even more than the first. I don't know, they've both been amazing. You're incredible. And I just am so honored. And anyone who gets to be in close proximity of you, anyone who gets to work with you, your churchgoers.

They're all so lucky and fortunate and blessed. Your wife, everyone to have you. You're such a beautiful soul and sage. So I just thank you so much.

Don St John (42:38.833)
Thank you, sir. Thank you.

Sue (42:43.89)
And now, you know, you've already said so many amazing things, but I gotta ask you, because this is how I close out the show. What is that message for everyone? What, what is your hope? What is that closing message?

Don St John (42:56.641)
Don't be afraid, don't be afraid to do the work of uncovering the beautiful truth of who you are.

Sue (43:13.91)
That is such a powerful, beautiful, amazing closing message. You've been so wonderful. Thank you so much, Don.

Don St John (43:21.281)
Thank you. It's been a joy.